Advice on specific blue merle Pem breeders

Discussion in 'General Puppy Discussions' started by amynumber6, May 3, 2015.

  1. amynumber6

    amynumber6 Junior Member

    Hi all,

    I'm looking for a blue merle Pembroke and have started to research breeders. I'd like to know if anyone has anything good or bad to say about the following breeders (if your comment = "they shouldn't be breeding blue merle Pems," save it for someone else, kthnx).

    House of Blues - Oregon
    3M Blue Merles - Texas
    Corgi Lady - Florida (I know she doesn't ship)
    Paradise Pup (Cheryl) - Grass Valley, CA

    It seems hard in general to vet breeders, but even harder for something like a blue merle Pem. I've heard that some dishonest breeders will use Aussie Shepherds for the blue color, etc. so any help anyone can provide about these breeders listed above or any good breeders would be fantastic. Thanks! I'm located out in CA so something out this way would be ideal.
     
  2. Gally

    Gally Senior Member

    Here's the thing about blue merle pembrokes. They are not purebred. There is no blue merle in the pem breed so any dog with this color had to have been mixed with another breed at some point. I have no problem with mixed breed dogs or even people purposefully breeding thrm as long as they are honest that that is what they are producing and as long as they do all health tests and care that any other reputable breeder would do.

    In short, any breeder who claims to be selling pure bred blue merle pems is lying to you and therefore I could not call them reputable. If they are up front about their breeding practices then it is up to you to decide if you want to support them as a breeder.

    Whether you get a blue merle or any other corgi check that the breeder is at least meeting these standards of a reputable breeder:

    Ask them about their health testing they should be OFA or Pennhip tested for hips. Tests for VW, DM and EIC should also be done. Their eyes should be checked by a ACVO ophthalmologist.

    They should have a contract, a health guarantee, and should guarantee that they will always be willing to take back any dog they have bred.

    They should also be testing their dogs form in some hands on functional way. That could be conformation showing, agility or herding etc. But it should be something that shows that the dog is of good breeding quality (good functional form, stable tempermant, bidable etc.).
     
    Cheetah likes this.
  3. Michael Romanos

    Michael Romanos Active Member Staff Member Moderator

    Gally is of course completely correct.

    There are many Corgis in the USA and many dubious breeders and if one Googled the California Beach Corgi meet-up on April 13 which attracted 600 Corgis and their owners etc you would see on the videos available quite a few non-standard Pem Corgis such as an all-white one.

    We don't want to be promoting non-standard Pems or Cardigans but correct size and shape, correct colours, correct coats, erect ears and all the typical characteristics that make Corgis of both breeds so very wonderful. Pem Corgis for instance are one of the top 10 breeds of dogs for families and there are some 338 recognised breeds of dogs in the world.

    A blue merle Pembroke could possibly come from pure bred lines of Pembrokes because of all the inbreeding between the two breeds prior to the 1930s. But it is unlikely. I have a nearby neighbour where i live who owns a Cardigan-Pembroke cross black and white Corgi named Megs who always gets rapturously excited whenever she sees me.

    If you want a blue merle there are Cardigan Corgis who fit the bill.




    MR likes this
     
  4. wuzzup

    wuzzup Senior Member

    I believe it's the right of any American to shell out boo-koo bucks for "mutts"!
     
  5. ZeldaTheCorgi

    ZeldaTheCorgi Member

    Gally is correct, blue merle pems do not exist, but blue merle cardigans do! What are the blue merle pems mixed with? Are they mixed with Cardigans for the color? They will obviously not be "purebred" Pems, but if they are mixed with Cardigans and that's what you want, then there is no reason not to get what you want. They could be 3/4 Pem and 1/4 Cardigan which is why they may call them "blue merle Pems". Like Gally said, make sure they have all their health testing and come with a health guarantee!

    Also, check out @carterthecorgi on instagram, he is from Corgi Lady in Florida. You could maybe private message them to get some more information!

    Michael, I was personally at corgi beach day and while there were a lot of non-standard pems, the SoCal Corgi Community doesn't discriminate. We welcome ALL corgis, corgi mixes, and other breeds. Also, the non-standard dogs that you are mentioning, like Winston the White Corgi, are companions not breeding stock. They're not passing their genes along, so they are in no way a threat to the breed. I agree that only high quality pems should be bred, however, I believe that health testing and temperament are far more important factors than coloring or appearance. :walk:

    Here are some pics of Zelda on beach day:
    View attachment 9006
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    Attached Files:

  6. ZeldaTheCorgi

    ZeldaTheCorgi Member

  7. Michael Romanos

    Michael Romanos Active Member Staff Member Moderator

    A blue merle Pembroke could indeed exist but it is not a correct colouration for Pems and at least one of the eye colours are also of course incorrect.

    I run a Corgi club and we accept all pure-bred Corgis no matter if they have any non-standard aspects apart from aggressive behaviour.


    MR likes this
     
  8. wuzzup

    wuzzup Senior Member

    Wow! Zelda digs the water! Unlike Zelda, my pems don't surf; they just wade. My home is only minutes from dog beach (we've been to a few Corgi beach days, too) but when the water warms, the bacterial counts go up. Nowadays, we check the tide charts and go at low tide and mostly during winter.

    How many corgis attended, this year?
     
  9. ZeldaTheCorgi

    ZeldaTheCorgi Member

    Wuzz, 634 corgis signed into the event this year, but there were many who did not sign in, I'd say it was more likely 750+. It was a blast and we will be going again in July!
     
  10. Helewisetran

    Helewisetran Junior Member

    Hi Amynumber6,

    I'm looking for a blue merle pembroke Corgi too. I was wondering if you find any new breeder beside the one on your previous post. Also, which breeder did you decide to get your corgi from?
     
  11. Michael Romanos

    Michael Romanos Active Member Staff Member Moderator

    Why don't you simply look for a blue merle Cardigan Corgi where this is associated with the breed standard. Looking for a blue merle Pem (which means that in the not too distant past the breeds were mixed ie Cardigan and Pem) is like looking for a pink elephant in the eyes of many people. No breeder worth this description should be deliberately producing blue merle Pems or any other mis-coloured coat etc. One would also question the breeder's standard of breeding and care and management of the parents and puppies and motives.
     
    JessJessB likes this.
  12. Helewisetran

    Helewisetran Junior Member

    Hi Michael,

    Thank you for your advice but I can't simply look for a Cardigan Corgi. A dog is a 15+ years commitment and I would rather not just settle with one. I'm sure you know very well the difference between a Cardigan and a Pembroke in term of both appearance and personality. I love the Pembroke outgoing personality and its goofy facial expression but I'm guilty of wanting all that pack inside a merle coat. Yes, I understand I'm searching for a pink elephant but I also know that there is one out there waiting for me so I have to keep looking.

    So far I have found some breeders (most are mentioned from Amynumber6 post). They test their breeding dogs for genetic conditions and require a detailed application and an initial phone conversation to determine whether you would provide a good home for their dogs. Yes, they cross breed but so did many breeders back during the Victorian time to achieve the designed look which we set as standard right now. What make it morally ok then but not now? I think it's rather unfair to immediately assume that breeders whom choose to cross breed have questionable standard and their buyers naive or ignorant.

    Anyway, I just want to say that I have done some homework on this by myself. I do not want to get into a debate on AKC and purebred dogs. I only hope to gain some experience and support from other Blue Merle Pembroke owners.
     
  13. Michael Romanos

    Michael Romanos Active Member Staff Member Moderator

    There are some breeders in the USA who deliberately produce fluffy Corgis - of either breed of Corgi - and this should be stamped out too because though fluffies are very cute and typically have a softer nature than do the normal coated Corgis, their abnormal coats are a problem and make them disadvantaged. A Pem that is a blue merle may not be a typical Pem in nature and personality because of the influence of the Cardigan in their breeding background.
     
  14. Helewisetran

    Helewisetran Junior Member

    Kinda random of you - Michael to mention fluffy corgi when the topic was about blue Merle Breeder Pembroke but I have to say that I love the fluffy corgi just as much as blue merle. Maybe I'm a rebel, lol.

    Anyway, I just want to announce my good news. My search is over. I have found my Blue Merle Pembroke. His name is Pluto, he's 7 months old now and I have had him since he's 8 weeks. Sweetest dog! He's from Paradise Pup (Cheryl) - Grass Valley, CA so thank you, amynumber6. I couldn't have found her if it wasn't for this discussion. He's 95% pem, 5% cardigan (pretty much just enough DNA for the merle and blue eyes gene). DM tested and cute as a cylinder button LOL.

    But that's not it! Last weekend, we fly to Houston, TX to pick up our 10 weeks old fluffy Pembroke. She's 100% Pembroke and fluffy. DM and vWM tested, beautiful sable color. We named her Liberty.

    They both have great temperament, beautiful and healthy. AKC and several breed critics might look down on them but they are precious for our family and friends. No one can pass by these cuties without having to turn around for a second look. Hope to see you all on the next corgi beach day in October. In the mean time, here are some bragging pictures from an extremely proud mom. Liberty&Mom.jpg Liberty.jpg Pluto&Liberty.jpg Pluto sleep.jpg Pluto&Mom.jpg Pluto.jpg

    Liberty&Mom.jpg Liberty.jpg Pluto&Liberty.jpg Pluto sleep.jpg Pluto&Mom.jpg Pluto.jpg
     
  15. Michael Romanos

    Michael Romanos Active Member Staff Member Moderator

    Hele - In a kind of manner I think you are related to Frankestein who produced his monster. I mean, really - going to a lot of time and trouble to get a Blue Merle Pembroke and a fluffy Pembroke. And you probably had their tails cut off just for good measure to show how normal it all is (at least in the USA as 36 countries now ban docking of Corgis tails). However there was always a massive chance that both your Corgis would have good to great temperaments.


    Have you got another trick up your sleeve?

    Sorry to sound like Donald Trump.
     
  16. Helewisetran

    Helewisetran Junior Member

    Awww, what a mean thing to say to a mother! but you don't have to apology about sounding like Donald Trump. In fact, I wouldn't expect anything less from you.

    Just to clear some notes, I don't breed dogs so thankfully I don't have to go through all the trouble to "get" my puppies. I only have to do my homework and decide on the breeders I feel comfortable working with. After all, a puppy is not an impulse decision so the more time I spend searching, the better.

    As for the tail docking, I agree with you that tail docking should be banned. Honestly, I do. Unfortunately, the majority of breeders in US dock tails and our law makers have so many other major issues to disagree with each other, tail docking is quite low down the list. For us to get a tailed corgi here, we have a limited number of breeders starting to leave tails on or we have to tell the breeders we wish to keep the tail before the puppies are even born since the tails are cut around 3 days old :( Now, I know all this because I was hopping to keep my pups tail as well but I was a few steps too late.

    And for another trick up my sleeve, I will let you keep guessing ;) :D.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2016
    ZeldaTheCorgi likes this.
  17. ZeldaTheCorgi

    ZeldaTheCorgi Member

    I can't help but notice that the main issue with mixing breeds is breed standard, but in the same breath thereis a criticism of tail docking practices that are breed standard.

    As a biologist I can't find any issues with mixed dog breeds, especially mixing very similar dog breeds. In fact, by crossing pems and cardis the resulting breed will probably be healthier than either breed alone because there is greater genetic diversity (that is of course as long as the parents are tested for genetic disorders). How do you think corgis got here? By breeding preferred traits, like coloration. That's likely why there are two separate breeds. Breed standards are fairly irrelevant with controversies like tail docking. I don't think it matters if the two breeds are hybridized, but maybe that's just me.
     
    Helewisetran likes this.
  18. Helewisetran

    Helewisetran Junior Member

    @ZeldaTheCorgi, thank you! I'm glad it's not just me noticing Michael was all over the place. First, criticizing Blue Merle as a mix breed, then randomly mentioned fluffy for being pure breed but not accepted by breed standard, and lastly condemning the breed standard itself for tail docking. We all have our own opinions about various issues concerning dog breeding but it's nice to stay on topic.
     
  19. Michael Romanos

    Michael Romanos Active Member Staff Member Moderator

    I have no issue with any inconsistencies on my part.

    A Corgi is a Corgi and a dog is a dog but we can do better than breed or promote pure bred Corgis that are faulty to the standard otherwise there will be no standard and this in turn will degenerate to physical and health issues and the Pem/Cardi Corgis as breeds will be gone. There are good reasons not to promote, deliberately breed or proliferate fluffy coated Corgis and blue merle Pembroke Corgis. And for one person to seek out both seems far over-the-top to me.

    That both these Corgis that this person has, have docked tails as Pems is rather ironic since as far as the USA goes, it is in keeping with Pembroke standards - why did the breeders kept within those standards by docking the tails when other factors are not standard?
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2016
  20. fromperpig

    fromperpig Member

    Boy, Helewisetran, I'm jealous. I luv em both! Congratulations! You were determined, focused and would not take No for an answer. Great job, young lady!
     
    Helewisetran and ZeldaTheCorgi like this.

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