Coat length

Discussion in 'The Breed Standard' started by Bayoucorgi, Feb 5, 2007.

  1. Bayoucorgi

    Bayoucorgi Senior Member

    I was watching the Eukanuba Dog Show on AP and the tri-corgi in the Group doesn't look anything like Liam. And it's not just because he was a tri and Liam is red and white. It's not a big surprise that Champion Corgi doesn't look like Rescue Corgi but the show corgis seem to have a lot longer fur especially a big white ruff around his neck. Liam has the fluffy furnishings on his fanny, but no big white ruff. He's only 14 months old, does that come later? It doesn't really matter (I adore this dog), just wondering. In Goldens we had some show dogs with lots of coat and more working lines had less? And we had some dogs that matured slowly and got adult coat at 2 or 3 years old. And we have the seasonal and latitudinal influence too. So how long are regular (not fluffy) corgi coats?
  2. corgimom

    corgimom Senior Member

    Interesting that you should ask this - I think just last week someone was talking about this and they mentioned that corgis can have the short coat, the longer ones, (but not Fluffies), and then the Glamour coats - I can't remember who said this, but I thought it was Taflar(Peggy). I was watching the Eukanuba show also and noticed that the Golden Retrievers in our neighborhood look nothing like the one on the show.
  3. Dillydoodle

    Dillydoodle Senior Member

    This will be very interesting- my thought is that breeding is part of it but i wonder if there is special grooming done to a show dog ...the other thing is that i wonder how much hormones have to do with it, remember these dogs are show dogs and not neutered or spayed... I will be very interested in hearing some experts here on this one ( Dillon has a nice coat but not like i see in shows- and Gus, Dillon's uncle the now retired show dog, from photos, has that thicker looking more glamour coat and the only real difference is one is neutered and the other is not ( he will be in a week)
  4. Peggy

    Peggy Senior Member

    Yes, there are varying amounts of coat. Some dogs can have a tight coat, shorter, probably what Liam has. Some have a bit longer, and some have what is called a "glamour" coat. Not a fluffy but a lot of coat. This coat should still have the harsh texture and no feathers.

    Some dogs get a bit more coat as they mature, but usually a puppy coat is pretty plush.

    The "fluffy furnishings" are called "pants". Some are longer than others, again should never be like feathers on a Golden.

    Did that help?

  5. Peggy

    Peggy Senior Member

    Yes, there is some grooming that makes a difference. The dogs showing are usually freshly bathed. Some times bodifiers or mousse is used and yes that will make the coat look fuller.

    As for hormones yes, it does make a difference but not like you're thinking. IMO, and I have both intact dogs and altered ones here, the intact dogs blow their coats more thoroughly than the altered ones do. Especially the females.

    What the dog is fed can make a diffrence. The amount of grooming, humidity, etc. The dogs you see as the top winners are out every weekend and kept bathed, groomed and on very good foods. All that makes a difference.

    The thing that makes the biggest diffeence is genetics. The amount of coat a dog carries is very much genetic.

  6. LittlePonzo

    LittlePonzo Senior Member

    I know exactly what you are talking about...My husband just commented on the past two corgis we saw out. He said, how come Ponzo's hair is so long. I told him that it's not that there are different lengths of corgi hair. Ponzo however got the coat of his lovely daddy and mommy both of which had those glamour coats. He has a thick rough of hair around the neck and some serious pants. People are constantly remarking on how soft and shiny his coat always is. So our dropped ear, tiny head and muzzle, skinny legged man got the Show coat and markings! Ironic kinda! But he's the best for snugglin and will always look like a puppy, yippee!!
  7. manymuddypaws

    manymuddypaws Senior Member

    I agree with Peggy- when I was showing Wicca she always looked like she had more coat....It was actually more to do with the fact that she was freshly bathed, moussed and blowdried to make her coat stand up more. And then there are chalks and the like to "enhance" colors....

    But at the same time Wicca's full brother has WAY more coat than she does- hers is shorter and soft and Never's (her bother) is coarse and longer...It's all in the genes I suppose....

  8. Peggy

    Peggy Senior Member

    I don't think it's ironic at all, a dog can have a great coat and still not be of the correct structure. For a show dog the structure comes first, coat and markings are "cosmetic".

    And in reailty there are not "show markings". There are limits as to how much, but not any markings that are considered to be correct for showing.

    Oh, and a shiny coat is good, but a corgis coat should not be "soft". A correct coat has a harsh texture, not a soft one. So his coat is not quite correct. Right length but not texture.

  9. LittlePonzo

    LittlePonzo Senior Member

    His coat isn't soft like a maltese. It has a rougher feel but not a dry rough someone's coarse but conditioned hair. Does that make sense? I guess it's hard to explain.
  10. LittlePonzo

    LittlePonzo Senior Member

    Peggy, could you clarify for me the limits and markings thing? I always assumed that in the standard where they discuss the coat and where the white can be and marking disqualifications that any coat fitting the ideals described was of show markings quality. I just figured it was like with the dalmations where the black spots can't overlap in so many if they had any overlapping they weren't considered for showing. Thanks for helping me figure this out in advance!
  11. Jespah

    Jespah Senior Member

    Thanks Peggy for clarifying some of the coat questions here. My two have the not long/not short coat - though they are Corgis from different countries and breeders. Rupe looks like he has the big chest ruff, but he's just very muscular and "chesty" (unlike me :rolleyes: ). I can see how if they ever allowed me to blow dry them and bath them on a regular basis, they may have a different look.

  12. Peggy

    Peggy Senior Member

    Ok, that makes it sound like the harsh texture it should be. Not dry, not wiry, but not soft, a hard coat.

  13. LittlePonzo

    LittlePonzo Senior Member

    Good I did describe it right....That was hard to do. Anyway, could you explain that whole standard thing. I do try to read and understand it but clearly I was off. Please educate, hahahaha!
  14. Peggy

    Peggy Senior Member

    Nope, a bit different, to begin with there are no disqualifications in Pembrokes at all. Other than the AKC ones, like needing two testicles in males.

    For Cardigans, there are a few but not in regards to markings.

    For Pembrokes the white should not go past the shoulders and if you draw a line at elbow height it should not be above the elbows. The blaze should not touch the eyes.

    White legs and white collar are not necessary for a dog to be showable.

    A couple of quotes from the PWC standard:
    "White is acceptable on legs, chest, neck (either in part or as a collar). muzzle, underparts and as a narrow blaze on head." and
    "Mismarks -Self colors with any area of white on the back between withers and tail, on sides between elbows and back of hindquarters, or on ears. Black with white markings and no tan present."

    For Cardigans, from the standard:
    "White flashings are usual on the neck (either in part or as a collar), chest, legs, muzzle, underparts, tip of tail and as a blaze on head. White on the head should not predominate and should never surround the eyes. Any color other than specified and/or body color predominantly white are disqualifications."

    Hope that explains things a bit better.

  15. Peggy

    Peggy Senior Member

  16. LittlePonzo

    LittlePonzo Senior Member

    You are the best! I get it now, thanks! I am going to check out that site.
  17. LittlePonzo

    LittlePonzo Senior Member

    I can't believe I never saw that page before. That was great. It was so cool to see how they did that with the imaginary lines and all.
  18. Dillydoodle

    Dillydoodle Senior Member

    Thanks Peggy for the clarification, i really was curious what made the big difference in the look of that show coat... one day i might grab mouse, a blow dryer and make Dillon all showy looking... LOL something tells me he will NOT be so happy about that !!! ( he hates the blowdryer...he perfers a toweling ,a frap and rolling all over the oriental rug leaving a ton of hair all over it!
  19. manymuddypaws

    manymuddypaws Senior Member

    Hi Ponzo
    If you are interested here is a site about Cardigan colors etc. My Blue Merle is mismark and is not show quality- he has a solid white head which is not a desired trait.
  20. dcole

    dcole Senior Member

    Horray for my beautiful, mis-marked (white on ear) little boy! :D

    And like Little Ponzo, he will always look like a puppy ("Is he a puppy?" - something I get asked at least once a week during neighborhood walks. )


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