Dismayed with the USA

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Michael Romanos, Aug 26, 2015.

  1. Michael Romanos

    Michael Romanos Active Member Staff Member Moderator

    I am dismayed at what has been going on in the USA right up to the latest news reports today (Thurs 27 Aug NZ time) - politics and crime and madness. I would hand over the country to Corgis and their owners but am afraid that too many Corgi owners are also crazies.

    I believe that the USA should be dismantled and turned into several different independent countries. In that way at least one of these countries will be reasonable - with a new Western European-style political system, dampening down on capitalism, getting rid of guns and gun-mentality and any rights to bear arms, supporting the overwhelming evidence of man-made climate change and in showing more humility and less arrogance along the lines that Pres Obama has been attempting to promote.

    What i feel is that the USA as it now stands has gone beyond the point of redemption. Chaos and disaster will continue to grow and this is no pretty picture for the world to witness and does the world no favours. Perhaps Pope Francis when he visits the USA shortly will sow the seeds for a different approach by the USA both within the USA and its foreign policies and pursuits, and to some extent he will reinforce some of the aspects that Pres Obama has been trying to install.
  2. Pennyh

    Pennyh Junior Member

    Ha! This is sure to be a hotly debated conversation.
  3. Michael Romanos

    Michael Romanos Active Member Staff Member Moderator

    There are lots of good people in the USA ("great people" as Trump would say) Most of the good people don't appear on Fox News.
  4. ZeldaTheCorgi

    ZeldaTheCorgi Member

    I am from the USA, and I can indeed confirm that we are doomed. Our government is a complete joke. The upcoming 2016 elections are also a complete joke, as with all of our elections thanks to our two party system and the electoral college. I have to say that as far as gun rights go, I am not willing to give up guns at this point due to the increase in crime. I would not feel comfortable surrendering my guns as a law-abiding citizen while criminals keep their guns. The American government has created more problems than they can possibly solve; it truly is time to tear down and start over.
  5. Michael Romanos

    Michael Romanos Active Member Staff Member Moderator

    Zelda - Thanks for such a thoughtful response. Not everything is rosy in New Zealand either but we only unleash All Blacks onto the world (Google AB if you don't know who these are).

    Americans are obsessed with neutering male dogs and being armed with lethal weapons that fire bullets.

    Lets give you one tiny group of stats. The Japanese police are armed with guns but guns are not made available to any citizen in Japan and hunting is not an activity in Japan. So in one year that I did some comparative research, there were four (4) people killed by gunfire in Japan. In that same year there were 32,000 Americans killed by gunfire and this figure does not include killings on foreign land such as Iraq. The population of Japan is around a third of that of the USA - so make that 12 Japs killed per capita. But you might think that the Japs are slightly weird people. So lets take France in that same year - I think the total for France was 14 and their police are armed with guns but the citizens are not allowed to have guns as weapons.. France has a population of around a fifth to that of the USA so make that 90 French killed per capita.

    As Pres Obama said the USA doesn't have a mortgage on mentally affected people (maybe he is a little incorrect) so it is mainly to do with the gun mentality of the USA. In countries like Japan , France, Germany, Britain, Australia and NZ ( police in NZ do not have holstered guns at present and certainly traffic police do not) where gun ownership and usage is strictly controlled, guns kill few - other weapons also kill few. It is always less likely that a knife or a bat is going to kill someone. The very fact that a routine traffic offence in the USA can lead to so much violence let alone someone being killed is all to do with guns as the armed cop is unsure if the driver or passenger/s are not also armed and also willing to use their weapons.
  6. ZeldaTheCorgi

    ZeldaTheCorgi Member

    I certainly don't disagree with the statistics of gun regulation in other countries. There is a lot of proof that gun regulation works very well. However, I think that before America can truly focus on gun regulation, they must first focus on lowering overall crimes rates. Most criminals are opportunists. And if citizens suddenly no longer had guns, there would be a huge opportunity for an increase in crime. America spends too much time focusing on issues in other countries, and not enough time focusing on the problems right here in our own country. There are currently too many issues to simply say that guns are the sole cause of gun violence in America. The American government does not have good control if it's borders, which allows crime to freely flow in and out of our country. We are also spending a lot of time and money putting the wrong criminals behind bars (I believe that only violent crime requires a long prison sentence). I live in a country where people can make more money from unemployment per month and working a minimum wage job. Because of other factors like this, we cannot simply implement gun regulation laws and expect crime rates to go down. It would require a complete overhaul of our government. We would have to fix our other issues and implement gun regulation at the same time in order to get the results we desire.
  7. Michael Romanos

    Michael Romanos Active Member Staff Member Moderator

    There is no greater welfare state than NZ but also not far removed from NZ's position with welfare are Australia, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland. Then down a little are the likes of Britain and the Netherlands These countries have greater welfare benefits including the unemployment benefit and higher minimum wages than does the USA. Pres Obama has attempted to make a $10 ph minimum wage USA-wide but so far has failed. The minimum wages in Australia and NZ is around $15 per hour. NZ has had universal free health services since the 1930s. We currently have a moderate tax system lower than the USA. True the USA wastes far too much of its (borrowed) money on its military and its military operations (and of course there is Trump in particular who wants to up the anti much further and make the USA greater than great militarily speaking).

    There are far too many people in prisons in NZ (we have a high prison rate) and we do not have anywhere near the harsh prison sentences that they have in the US. Maybe they put people away for too long in the USA so that killing a person becomes more of an 'attractive' alternative. A woman in her 30s in the USA several weeks ago was given several years in prison for 'unlawful' but consensual sex with three 16-17 year old guys. In NZ she may have received home detention for a few months at worse..

    The USA could become 'disarmed' internally over a reasonably short period of time in a series of procedures - biu there has to be a massive shift in mindset starting with the dissolvement of the NRA. They have banned the KKK and Communism in the USA but not the NRA.
  8. Michael Romanos

    Michael Romanos Active Member Staff Member Moderator

    Bernie Sanders makes some sense. By NZ terms, he would be a centre-right winger and to the right of most members of the ruling National (Conservative) Government.

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