Healthy Organic Food and Treats

Discussion in 'Holistic Care' started by ColColt, Sep 29, 2007.

  1. ColColt

    ColColt Senior Member

  2. behinderhereyes

    behinderhereyes Senior Member

    I truly wish my wallet could take that kind of punch, it seems like a wonderful brand of dog food.
  3. Michael Romanos

    Michael Romanos Active Member Staff Member Moderator

    Anything that includes the name 'organic' is expensive and most times the price is a rip-off. New Zealand has a lot of commercially sold orgainc food. In many cases the non-orgainic produced food is just as good - and considerably cheaper. Let the buyer beware!
  4. colbycorgi

    colbycorgi Senior Member

    we were just given some samples of a new food by merrick that is all natural called before seems good but every time we give our pups something natural, they get the poops....cammie has an "expeshially" sensitive tummy it seems...but e keep trying as i know it would take time to make a switch anyhow...we feed CA naturals now and they seem to like that....we are going to use the samples as treats and see how that goes...
  5. Louwants

    Louwants Senior Member

    I get Lassie's Natural Way from my grocery store. It fits my pocketbook and the ingredients seem good. I switched to it when Duncan seem to be sensative to wheat and corn flour. Which was a blessing with the scare we had last year.

    Here's the website in case someone whats to look it up. The price is just a little more than Purina One and below the organic foods that pet stores carry.

    Natural Dog Food, Healthy Dog Food for your Pet - Lassie Natural Way
  6. Cheetah

    Cheetah Global Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    "All Natural" isn't the same as "Organic."

    That said, The food I feed (Canidae) isn't organic either, but still works great for my dogs, without the extra price.
  7. Louwants

    Louwants Senior Member

    My bad.......I meant all natural....thanks for correcting me!

    I bought it mainly because there was no wheat or corn flour listed. I had been buying organic until I found this and was just pleased that it didn't bother Duncan.
  8. MyPemCharlie

    MyPemCharlie Global Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    I'm not very impressed with the list of ingredients in Karma. Organic or not, it's very grain heavy. The second ingredient, kamut, is a type of wheat. I'm staying away from corn, wheat, and soy (thought to cause allergies and/or not highly digestible). Using "wet" chicken reduces the meat content, as it is 80% water that dries off during processing. Karma lists 20% protein content in the guaranteed analysis, which is very low compared with most other brands.

    I think their are much better foods available than Karma. I don't mind paying a premium price for Charlie's food, but I definitely expect to get a truly premium food for the money.
  9. LaRogue

    LaRogue Senior Member

    It's been carried at one of my local independent pet stores since I've been shopping there. I agree with Chris, organic or not, I don't find the ingredients impressive, plus I need chicken and wheat free food and treats, so it is out for me.

    Out of curiosity, does New Zealand allow the inclusion of genetically altered foods, such as corn and other grains, in their human or pet foods? How about growth homones and antibiotics in livestock and fowl? As I'm sure you know, in the United States these are included in our food chain with little to no disclosure and people are turning towards "natural" and "organic" foods in an effort to reduce the nasties they consume every day. I've been under the impression that New Zealand, along with many other countries, have more strict food guidelines, hence the huge US demand for your homone, antibiotic free lamb.
  10. Michael Romanos

    Michael Romanos Active Member Staff Member Moderator

    La Rogue - NZ does not commercially produce any genetically altered food. Careful scutiny is made of imported food which carries modification.

    The vast number of dogs do not suffer any ill affects from wheat, corn etc and this food is actually beneficial to dogs. If a dog has an allergy to a certain food or foods, it is highly likely they have other problems as well.
  11. fogebotom

    fogebotom Senior Member

    Okay, once again pulling out previous job experience dealing with animal feeds and natural vs organics, here's somethings to chew on.

    My good friend with the doctorate in animal nutrition is also a huge proponante of organics even going so far as being the director of the state's organic certification board.

    Each and every state in the US has the ability to create their own rules for organic certification. Some have multiple entites that certifiy and that creates even more confusion.

    Yes organic is more expensive. The reason is that there is no reliable way to mass produce the product. Smaller farms are established because larger mass quantities of animals set up situations for disease issues. Smaller farms also do not have the mass buying power of a larger producer. The basics on organics to start with is that you have to have the livestock or grain production on ground that for a min of 3 years has no pesticides, herbicides or what ever used on them. Each year you have to produce records, be inspected and certified. Processing can only happen in facilities that are certified, same with any transporting farm to table. That's why it's more expensive.

    Natural is a word thrown around too liberally. For the most part, many who feel that the certification process is too hard to deal with or unrealistic will label and can label their product as natural. Small Farmer's Journal, recent additon, has a wonderful story about Apple Family Farms, that explains a lot of this. You have to be very careful on that word and investigate as best as you can. Many just like to throw it around because they can and it's the in thing to use.

    Organic produce used in any food that is labeled organic must be able to provide proof of organic certification if asked.

    Currently we are attempting to go natural with our ducks with the hope in 3-5 years of having an organic flock. Dogs-well, will be as natural as we can but it's hard with them.

    So anyone with any more questions--shoot them on over and I will try to answer as best as possible.
  12. We have been feeding Copper Merrick foods, both dry and canned, for about a year now. It has a lower grain content (not the first ingredient) than what he was getting (sience diet). I think that it totally makes a diffrence in his engery level and the health of his skin and coat. I have noticed since we switched he is "itchy" :itch: less often and his fur is a lot healthier looking.

    As far as price goes, I would rather spend a little extra on the food and a lot less at the vet.

    BTW: The Merrick canned food smells good (for dog food) and looks a lot like people food. I don't want to feed my pets something that makes me want to vomit when I put it in their bowl.
  13. LaRogue

    LaRogue Senior Member

    Not sure if this falls into the topic, but I have a question. Where does the salt come from, in foods made without additives? Is the salt that remains in the processed meat of the food adequate to meet the dog's nutrional needs or is Mr. Pip getting his daily salt intake from licking me to death, every chance he gets? :)
  14. LaRogue

    LaRogue Senior Member

    I'm not clear here, does this mean your dog food can contain genetically altered grains, if it's imported? Is most of your dog food imported or produced in NZ?

    Food allergies in the US (both people and dogs) are on the rise. If, as in the US, genetically altered grains, grains, fruits, and veggies grown with chemicals, and livestock/fowl raised on hormones and antibiotics are allowed in the food chain, then I think those things can have an affect on health, until proved otherwise. I personally, would like to see much higher food standards in the US. I think we should be able to know what is in the foods we eat (or feed our dogs!)

    If I remember correctly, some years back, Baytril was banned from being used in poultry because it was believed to be entering the human food chain via chicken, causing people to become more resistant to antibiotics. You don't think something similar could be going on with other foods, including the ingredients used in dog food?
  15. MyPemCharlie

    MyPemCharlie Global Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    That's an interesting question. I pulled the ingredient list for the Karma Organic Food brought up in the original post. They add Sea Salt, and describe the benefits thusly:

    "Sea salt is used in Natura's food to provide the essential nutrients sodium and chloride.

    Not adding a source of sodium like sea salt could rapidly lead to problems with the heart and kidneys. Feeding a food deficient in chloride could lead to problems with the nervous system.

    Alternative sources for sodium were explored by Natura nutritionists, but were rejected since a natural source like sea salt was preferred over a chemically-made ingredient. In addition, other good sources of sodium like raw kelp were not used as they were found to have comparatively low levels of sodium compared to sea salt.

    Natura never used excessive levels of sodium to increase our food's palatability, but relies on the inherent wholesomeness of our ingredients to make foods dogs and cats love to eat."

    (Quote from the Karma website: Holistic Dog Food and Dog Treats for Enhanced Pet Food Nutrition – Karma Organic Food for Dogs)

    In comparison, I looked at the Canidae ingredients (I'm feeding Charlie). There is no "salt" listed, but there are several ingredients that almost require a chemist to decifer. I found in the Canidae ingredients an additive "Choline chloride" listed fairly high on the ingredients. A cross-ref look up indicates that choline chloride is "an organic compound and a quaternary ammonium salt".

    There is also an ingredient "sodium selenite", which appears to be a source of selenium derived from copper, and not a salt as the "sodium" first led me to think.

    I'm way out of my league of knowledge here, and the foregoing is the result of a couple quick searches to satisfy my curiosity.
  16. Michael Romanos

    Michael Romanos Active Member Staff Member Moderator

    La Rogue - almost all tinned and dry dog food sold in stores and vets in New Zealand is imported. Most of the dog rolls are produced here. Most commercially produced dog treats are imported.
  17. LaRogue

    LaRogue Senior Member

    Me too! But you answered my question. I checked some of the foods I was thinking of, when I made the post. One included sea salt, while the others had "salt sounding" ingredients that you were referring to.
    Thanks for the info!
  18. sofapup

    sofapup Senior Member

    Food from Where?

    My dogs have all eaten Iam's foods until the recent problems with Chinese imports. When one the Science Diet foods showed up on the list of tainted foods, I just threw up my hands and ran out to my local pet food store (not a chain.) Most of the people there liked Candidae, so I went with that. When the crisis settled out, the little corgi, Lilliput, went back to Iam's, since she did so well on it before. But the old spaniel stayed with the new food. There are ingredients in the old dog food that make sense to me, like glucosamine and cranberry, and other "real" foods. So it came down to more than just natural or organic (though dog treats still meet those standards.) "Human grade" mattered, as well as country of origin, and the amount of processing in each ingredient. I assume that less processing means fewer chances to add melamine, or antifreeze.

  19. maisy

    maisy Member

    Chris, I agree, Karma has too much grains. I guess there'd be no real market for organic and if meat heavy, it would be SUPER expensive.

    I do buy as much organic groceries as I can afford. Primarily milk, eggs and produce. There is a big difference in the nutrition in organic (although not all organic brands are even remotely equal!) dairy and eggs. Some nutritional difference, but not as much in produce. With produce I buy organic to avoid the toxins mostly. I have cockatoos and I share my veggies and fruits with them and the dogs. I also often (2-3 times per week) feed organic scrambled eggs to both the dogs and birds, and the dogs get a large container of full fat organic yogurt every week which they get mixed in with their Innova daily.

    With a super premium dog food, I expect there is mostly human grade ingredients, so less exposure to toxins for the dogs. And using organic for their add-ons helps their toxin load even more.

    BTW, I also am very, very careful with any household cleaning products I use. Air fresheners, fabric softeners, harsh shampoos and detergents are gone from my home. I hope all these things help my entire family to be healthier. After hours and hours and hours of research the past few years, I'm willing to bet it makes a big difference. Hopefully to the planet as well. :)

    A bonus for USDA organic dairy is that there are much stricter guidelines for the treatment of the animals. That's another point that's important to me.
  20. MyPemCharlie

    MyPemCharlie Global Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    I just yesterday picked up a gallon of Grade A Raw milk. It wasn't easy to get either...I had to join a local "milk club". But the cows are grass-fed, not grain fed, no growth hormones, anitbiotics or other drugs. Just natural raw milk from a natural "raw" cow. LOL I got interested in raw milk after acquiring kefir grains last Saturday to make my own probiotics. The woman who was running the milk pickup has chickens and said she sometimes has so many eggs that she "forces" people to take fresh eggs home with their milk. I'm in!

    As far as cleaners, I discovered that vinegar/water with a little bit of Listerine does a great job cleaning mirrors, shower tiles, and other hard surfaces. I was originally just using it to deordorize the ceramic tile around the cat box which my senior-citizen cat "misses" on occassion. Anything that kills cat urine odor is one powerful cleaner!

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