What is your regular grooming schedule?

Discussion in 'Grooming & Care' started by tranta1989, May 9, 2013.

  1. Peggy

    Peggy Senior Member

    And yet, you won't tell us where you have them published. Please do, as I find it hard to believe that they are paid for.

    Your stories/articles if triggered by anything on this site are only written, IMO, to back up your theory.

    Learning from others is just as important and sometimes if one has an open mind, one can learn from nearly anyone. I am not done learning and yes, I do learn sometimes from people who have not had anywhere near the experience in dogs that I've had. And believe it or not, sometimes my questions are asked with a real curiosity and wanting a factual answer, but you always blow me off and just post your opinion. This is what I meant in another thread by my opinion being just as good as yours. Not in conjunction with others who may share my views but in equal to any opinion you may have.

    I don't post here to help you write articles. I post here for those on the list that are willing to hear more than one opinion, and form their own opinions. I share from my 35+ years experience in dogs. (Mostly corgis.) I've learned from others, from seminars, books, internet and mostly experience. There are many who ask for my advice privately and I willingly and FREELY give it. I don't make money on what I write. And I don't use this or any forum as a jump off point for making money. But maybe I should...

    Peggy
     
  2. Michael Romanos

    Michael Romanos Active Member Staff Member Moderator

    Peggy, you would earn a fortune

    Isn't it lovely that we both give advice here freely just like everyone else posting on Go Corgi does.
    My youngest son though has chosen his career to come as selling advertising on the internet - just as the owner of Go Corgi does - and making pots of money. These are the real earners from all this "free" advice.





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  3. Peggy

    Peggy Senior Member

    IMO, if he's going to make money from the site, he should at least take part in it. I wonder how many really read internet ads. I rarely do.

    Peggy
     
  4. Michael Romanos

    Michael Romanos Active Member Staff Member Moderator

    This morning I read one on a very good wound healer and antiseptic for dogs that Kevan from Canada has been alluding to.

    The thing about advertising is perception. The more popular or topical a site or You Tube item is, the greater the advertising pull.


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  5. ellydruid

    ellydruid Senior Member


    I could see the logic in this if it were 'normal' to bathe dogs on a daily or semi-daily basis. Bathing too much can actually cause many of those diseases, and honestly, bathing a dog on a monthly basis is not going to make a big difference in preventing anything. A healthy dog with a healthy immune system (not overactive or underactive) will not need bathing for health purposes - it's really all about just general pleasantness to be around. Bathing with medicated shampoos TREATS diseases already acquired, but both demodex and sarcoptic mange, pyoderma, ringworm, etc, are not going to be prevented by bathing. Sorry Michael, that's not how disease works, especially that of a dermatologic nature.

    The parasitic diseases you listed (mange) happen as a result of stress - not lack of hygiene. An overly stressed dog with poor nutrition and living in otherwise unhygienic and unsanitary conditions (far worse than what most of our Corgis will ever experience I hope) will become susceptible to mange. It's very common for mange to be comorbid with other conditions, namely malnutrition or other severe illness.

    Ringworm happens as a result of physical contact with another infected animal or person. I got ringworm as a child from an infected kitten, in spite of being bathed every day. Once it's on you, it's on you, and it's ridiculously contagious. Applying medicated ointment and keeping the spot covered is the standard treatment, or depending on the extent of it, bathing with medicated shampoo is necessary. Note bathing is the treatment here, not the cure.

    Dermatitis is a general response to stress of the skin by the immune system. It has a multitude of causes and the treatment required is centered around the cause and alleviating symptoms. Cortisone cream or oral steroids are usually prescribed to help treat the symptoms if it is idiopathic.

    Folliculitis/pyoderma is common in dogs with skin folds as are yeast infections. The former is an immune system issue, and is often caused by resident flora - not transient. Resident flora can not, nor should not, be washed away. It is an opportunistic infection much the same as acne in humans, which often, will be precipitated by using harsh shampoos, because it causes the skin to dry out, crack, and become vulnerable to infection, in addition to the sebaceous glands overproducing oil, which causes them to clog. In other words, be sparing with the soap. When it comes to yeast/thrush, well, keeping things DRY is more important, as with all fungal infections. Bathing frequently can actually make most animals way more susceptible to fungal infections in the skin such as ring worm and candida because the ph balance, lubrication, and normal resident flora balance is upset, providing an opportunity for these organisms to take hold.

    Scales/dandruff is aggravated by bathing, as bathing dries a dog's skin out.

    As far as treatment for fleas/ticks/lice - if you or your child has ever had head lice, you know simple bathing does not prevent (they prefer clean animals to nest on) or treat (unless it's a medicated shampoo). If you're using a pesticide strong enough to kill lice as a preventative measure, you have other problems. Once a month fipronil or advantage treatments are really all that are necessary to keep the insect pests away from our pups.

    Keep in mind, if your logic stems from the fact that stray/abused/neglected animals often have skin problems, then it's misplaced - the skin problem is a symptom of the environment and the stress the animal is under, not a sign of lack of bathing. Most ranch dogs I know never get more than a perfunctory dunk in a stock tank on a hot day, yet few if any ever have the problems listed.

    And if you want to know my source? Many, many years of animal ownership, a few years working as a veterinary technician and now into human medicine. Throw in a bit of knowledge of pathology and disease process as a result. These are animals, not humans, and their bodies work better when we leave them to do just that - work. That's not to say an occasional bath is a bad thing, but when you treat otherwise healthy animals like humans, they often become ill.
     
  6. Peggy

    Peggy Senior Member

    Sounded to me like he was recommending it. I've used it, I got the recommendation from friends on facebook not from an ad.

    I understand how advertising works, I just very rarely read the ads on the web pages I go to. Including this one and facebook. Ads are not why I'm on the site.

    Peggy
     
  7. Peggy

    Peggy Senior Member

    Amen to all you said!!! :)

    Peggy
     
  8. Michael Romanos

    Michael Romanos Active Member Staff Member Moderator

    Thanks Ellydruid for another perspective other than from Peggy but you have misread my reference to a normal bathing programme for Corgis which is recommended at TWO - FOUR PER YEAR.

    I must say that once a month is acceptable with the quality dog shampoo we can purchase these days as is bathing when in a dirty or smelly state - other than subjecting a dog to that state on a daily or weekly basis. As well Corgis with a greasy coat/skin and a foul smell require specific shampoo and probably increased baths from the 2-4 per year. My published story of bathing mentioned that one Go Corgi member bathed his/her Corgi once a week and another once in two and a half years and both these measures are extreme. Of course over-bathing can damage a dog's health and as I have pointed out in this thread, under-bathing can also damage a dog's health. Swimming in clean rivers and lakes and grooming for a few minutes three times a week are other ways of keeping a Corgi clean and not having to shampoo-bath them more frequently.



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  9. Frodo's Mom

    Frodo's Mom Senior Member

    Frodo is rarely bathed. I brush him as often as possible, usually every other day. He has a beautiful coat of fur. In the wintertime because he has his natural coat the snow does not attach to his fur. Rain doesn't soak his fur through. He doesn't leave any dirt or residue on your hands when you pet him and he doesn't have any skin conditions. Feeding properly has a huge influence on their skin and coat. Using chemicals and fragrances on a dog is for your benefit, not the dogs. If Frodo gets too muddy I wet a microfibre cloth and use that to remove dirt. When he finds something stinky to roll in he has a sweet spot on his neck he seems to target. I use the microfibre cloth again for that.
     
  10. Peggy

    Peggy Senior Member

    I think the exhibitors and handlers that show their dogs on a regular basis, would be shocked to find that bathing their dogs weekly is extreme. Some do that for all the dogs they are showing. And on the days they show they are bathed daily. I'm talking about top winning dogs and top breeding kennels in the US (as I don't have info on kennels outside the US.)

    I have talked to these breeders/exhibitors. I have seen handlers that bathe the dogs daily during a show circuit. The dogs are in great health and wonderful coat.

    I think one needs to do what one thinks is best and not buy into the "extreme" theories of one person. There are many ways to take care of a dog's coat and bathing needs. My opinion, is my opinion, I have stated what I would not do or recommend. But I do not call those that differ with me extreme.

    Not everyone in the US is near a river/lake/pond/stream. There are many areas in the US where getting to any waterway like that would involve many hours of driving time. There is a creek across from my house, but it's on private property and fenced off (a grazing pasture for cattle and horses). So needless to say my dogs do not get to enjoy it.

    Dogs are not allowed in certain watershed areas, and must be on leash in National Forests. Not saying I agree with those laws, but they are the laws and those of us who do take our dogs in those areas must live by them.

    Peggy
     
  11. Michael Romanos

    Michael Romanos Active Member Staff Member Moderator

    Fifty two baths a year for a dog is extreme and certainly places a dog's health at risk - and let's face it, dog conformation showing is extreme though I recognise some of its value.



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  12. ellydruid

    ellydruid Senior Member

    No, you misread me. My point was that a reasonable bathing schedule (and the one you referred to is most certainly reasonable) will not prevent disease, because of the nature of the way disease works. I did not assume anything outside of the fact that the only kind of bathing schedule that might prevent some disease is extreme and will actually cause other diseases to pop up. Easy tiger.
     
  13. Michael Romanos

    Michael Romanos Active Member Staff Member Moderator

    My point Ellydruid is that a normal shampoo-baths schedule can help prevent some skin conditions (in contrast to under-shampoo bathing) and this is confirmed by the vets who say that skin mass and pyoderma and the like may not be preventable by the dog owners except that shampoo-bathing in maintaining skin and coat cleanliness may help to prevent these diseases and this is the best course of action for dog owners to follow. They don't recommend over-bathing. I take your point though and say that the two extremes of under and over bathing with shampoo can create health issues. But this does not include regular swimming in clean fresh water such as found in some rivers/streams and lakes. One vet termed skin disease prevention by bathing (recommended schedule) as "shampoo-therapy".



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  14. Peggy

    Peggy Senior Member

    Then explain why these dogs are so healthy. They sure don't seem to be suffering any.

    I don't think conformation showing is extreme at all. And neither do other conformation exhibitors. I suspect only those who don't find it fun and/or don't do well would find it extreme.

    Peggy
     
  15. ellydruid

    ellydruid Senior Member

    Four baths a year is not going to foster that kind of 'cleanliness' though, and it's just not how bacterial diseases like pyoderma and folliculitis work. Staphylococcus aureus grows much faster than every 3 months. As I mentioned, those types of diseases are usually caused by an internal or external imbalance, and I heavily disagree that bathing with normal everyday dog shampoo, even a high quality one, is a method of preventing disease. It's just not how pathogens work.
     
  16. Michael Romanos

    Michael Romanos Active Member Staff Member Moderator

    In reply to Peggy I will show my next Corgi for a period just as I have all the others and I have handled my Corgis to championship status. But it is a flawed recreational activity. Its importance though is in helping to maintain standards of breeds and produce excellence in a dog's conformation - though the sooner they change the standard for Pembroke Corgis in some countries to include the retention of tails, the better.

    Maintaining the short term health of a dog and maintaining the long term health of a dog are sometimes two different factors. And over-bathing a dog with 52 baths per year or even 26 baths per year may not always show short term health issues but why risk it. Long term though is different and the chances of health issues greater.


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  17. Peggy

    Peggy Senior Member

    I'm not going down that path to that argument again.

    It seems everything you don't agree with is flawed.

    You do realize that some of these show dogs are in the top ten for years and live quite long lives. I'd venture to say that their health does not suffer from the bathing. If it did they would not be doing it. An unhealthy dog will not win and even less will not be good for breeding.

    Show breeders and handlers, ethical/responsible ones anyway, are in it for the long haul. They love their dogs and work towards long term health for them, it's not just the short term gain (wins) that you seem to think is the only goal.

    Peggy
     
  18. Michael Romanos

    Michael Romanos Active Member Staff Member Moderator

    If you think it out on a quiet day in your life, Peggy you will probably come to the conclusion that over shampoo-bathing a dog can be damaging and create health issues that otherwise would not occur.




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  19. Peggy

    Peggy Senior Member

    I'm still waiting on the proof of what health issues can occur since I've not seen any in the dogs I've seen. Nor have I heard of any.

    I'll thank you to not make references to my life. You have no idea how many quiet days I have or do not have.

    Peggy
     
  20. Michael Romanos

    Michael Romanos Active Member Staff Member Moderator

    This is easy to answer.

    The usual reasons for bathing a dog are not for weekly dog shows but for removing accumulated dirt, to facilitate the removal of dead hair at shedding time, to eliminate stink from the skin and coat, to lessen irritated skin and to remove excess oil for dogs with oily coats.

    Frequent or routine baths can rob a dog's coat of its natural sheen and make it harsh and dry. The balance of a dog's skin will be disturbed and will dry out. The result of this can remove the protection that the otherwise healthy skin offers. Dry skin occurs with too much bathing or bathing with harsh products. This strips your dog's skin if its natural oils and therefore promotes itching, redness, hair loss, hot spots and infection.



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